Chapter 97: Debbie Millman shuns shame to spark spirit and sew soulful symbiosis

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Are you a passionate fan of Design Matters like I am? It’s one of the world’s oldest podcasts and one of the best shows out there. Debbie Millman scratches her insatiable curiosity and explores what it means to live a rich, fulfilling, intentional life with luminaries like Brené Brown, Cheryl Strayed, Brandon Stanton, Seth Godin, and, of course, Roxane Gay. (All guests of 3 Books, too! Clearly we have tethers between our hearts.)

Where do we start with Debbie Millman?

Well, she’s ‘one of the most creative people in business’ according to Fast Company and one of the ‘most influential designers working in the world today’ says Graphic Design USA. She’s got a wonderful new book called Why Design Matters: Conversations with the World’s Most Creative People, a giant, heavy, amazing tome put out by Harper Design which serves as a compressed set of wisdom and values from Design Matters.

Debbie is the author of seven other books including: How to Think Like a Great Graphic Designer and Brand Thinking and Other Noble Pursuits. She co-founded the world’s first graduate program in branding at The School of Visual Arts back in 2010. For 20 years before that she was the President of Sterling Brands, one of the world’s leading branding consulting agencies. What did she do there? No big deal: She helped design brand identities and logos for Star Wars, Burger King, Häagen Dazs, Gillette and even the No More movement.

Is she an activist? She sure is!

She’s also working with the Joyful Heart Foundation to eradicate sexual assault, domestic violence, child abuse and the rape kit back log.

Fascinating and containing many multitudes, it was an honor and privilege to welcome Debbie Millman on 3 Books to talk about: how you avoid limiting possibilities, why regret cannot be metabolized, what happens when you’re public about your shame, what makes for a great interview, and, of course, what are the incredible Debbie Millman’s 3 most formative books!

Let’s flip the page and jump into Chapter 97 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • What makes for a good interview?

  • How do you prepare for interviews?

  • How can we find our identity?

  • What are the different types of happiness?

  • What is organic happiness vs synthetic happiness?

  • Why is regret so damaging?

  • How do we navigate ‘gaping wounds of need’?

  • What can help a self-soothing journey?

  • How can we heal from shame?

  • How do we learn to slow down?

  • Why do feelings of accomplishment not last?

  • How do we orient ourselves towards what really matters most?

Notable quotes from debbie millman

“When a book lets you experience what it means to be alive it is art.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“I don't know that I  fell in love. I think maybe love found me.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“The one thing that I would say is a real common denominator in the younger students I teach, is the notion of eliminating what's possible in their lives before they attempt to even see if it's possible.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“When you are young, it's absolutely okay to sort of fall flat on your face with really very little ramification other than maybe a bruised ego.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“Regret is not an emotion that can be metabolized.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

​​”We can metabolize grief. We metabolize love. We metabolize hunger when we eat. We metabolize all sorts of things, but we don't metabolize regret because there's no closure.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“You must learn to self-soothe a gaping wound of need because no one else is going to be able to do it for you.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“We have to figure out how to self-regulate in a way that allows us to accept somebody as is without a requirement that they heal us.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“What feels so overwhelmingly shameful does allow you to reconsider what shame is.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“I use productivity as a way to feel valuable as a human.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“Our addiction to social media is probably fueling a lot of feelings of lack of value. Everything is about positioning and projecting a certain kind of image and  I think that that can be really damaging to more soulful experiences.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“I don't think that people are really addicted to their devices per se. I think that they're addicted to the feelings that they get through the devices” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“I don't think anybody ever comes away from Instagram after 30 minutes of scrolling feeling really good about themselves but yet we do it. “ Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“Poetry is really the highest art form.” Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

“Expect anything worthwhile to take a long time.”Debbie Millman #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 96: Dave the CEO on stratospheric strategizing and subtle secrets of success

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David Cheesewright is the former CEO of Walmart International.

In that role he led over one million people, across more than 50 different businesses, and over 30 countries.

A behemoth! Both the job and the company. How much of a behemoth? Well, Walmart is literally #1 overall on the Fortune 500 which means no company in the entire world made more money than they did.

How did a small town store from Bentonville, Arkansas rise to be the largest company in the world? Well, one big way they did it is through leadership. For over 20 years, one of the seniormost leaders at Walmart was Dave Cheesewright. Humble, down to earth, soft spoken, and lightning quick, Dave epitomized Level 5 Leadership, to borrow a phrase from Jim Collins. I was lucky to have a development role working for Dave when he was President and CEO of Walmart Canada. It was the most formative role of my career and I trace many stories and models in my books directly back to conversations and lessons I learned from Dave.

There was always something magical about Dave.

He was a former gym teacher who owned only one slightly crumpled suit and drove a beat-up van to work when he wasn’t showing up sweaty in the hallways after riding his bike. He had no fancy business degrees and was a true family man who was always home for dinner with his wife Clare and their three kids. He had a smaller office than his direct reports and ate two-dollar egg salad sandwiches at lunch amongst all the employees in the Home Office cafeteria. He would sometimes mention in the morning that he knocked on a Walmart in the middle of the night so he could help stock shelves on the overnight shift. He never used email, cancelled every meeting he could, personally phoned associates across the country to say thank you, and insisted every one-pager presented to him pass “The Grandma Test” (“Would my grandma who knows nothing about this business understand it?”).

Dave was promoted from CEO of Walmart Canada to CEO of Walmart EMEA (Europe, Middle East, and Africa) and later promoted again to CEO of Walmart International. What does a CEO overseeing over a million people actually … do? Well, that’s just one thing we’re going to talk about.

If you are a fan of the strategic thinking big time CEOs offer you’re going to love this conversation with a guy who thinks 500,000-feet above sea level.

What does a CEO do? What does a board of directors do? How do you make business simpler? What is the paradox of choice? How do we take an even more global view of things? How might we think about AI? What are the basic tenets of retail? Why shouldn’t you answer emails? How do you become a better delegator? What is the S-Curve in business? And much, much, much more…

I was thrilled to sit down with David Cheesewright, former CEO of Walmart International, in his living room to talk about his 3 most formative books.

I hope you love this conversation as much as I did.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 96 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • What is the value of taking handwritten notes?

  • How should one manage the initial stages of retirement?

  • What is the value exchange?

  • What is the job of a Fortune 500 Company CEO?

  • What is the key to cultivating talent?

  • What is the S-Curve in business?

  • How does the CEO of a major company deal with imposter syndrome?

  • What does a Board of Directors for a public company actually do?

  • What is the moral obligation of a Board of Directors?

  • How can a company truly live by its values?

  • Why is what matters most invisible?

  • How can businesses become simpler?

  • What is the paradox of choice?

  • What are some of the greatest challenges the workforce faces?

  • Is outsourcing manufacturing to China a force for good in the world?

  • What are the limitations of governance in a globalized world?

  • How does AI stack up?

  • What book will help you flirt?

  • How can good habits serve us at different stages of life?

  • Why should you not answer emails?

  • Why should we delegate more?

  • What is the importance of perspective?

  • What does achieving a balance over life mean?

Notable quotes from dave cheesewright

“What’s really important in jobs where you are not there full time is what you might call the value exchange. Do you feel valued in the experience and the knowledge and advice that you can give and does the company feel like you are valuable.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“It’s not about the strategy; it’s about the people.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“It’s about finding great people and then putting them in the right jobs at the right time.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“All the right leaders are authentic so you want to find roles that play to their strengths.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“The job of a leader is to create an environment where people excel.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“There is no one best line-up” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“Success is judged in many ways.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“You need to be content that you are somewhere where you can be yourself, you're giving it the best shot you can and you're happy with your own contribution.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“Judgements are in the eye of the beholder but the only beholder that matters is me, my family and my close friends” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“It’s very hard to know what goes on simply by listening to someone speak.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“The best board members are the ones who understand that getting into the business and finding those less formal conversations with leaders is the way to know what’s going on.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“In a formal environment there will always be an element of game playing that is going on but I find informal environments dispense with a lot of that.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“The challenge with big business is the bigger you are, the more misperceptions will exist irrespective of what your behaviour is.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“When you get big it is really hard to make sure everything is correct all the time. You will often get dealt with by your exceptions. There is no process in the world that can counter that but culture can counter that.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“If there is a set of values for a business they need to be more than a set of words on a wall. And to do that a leader has to be a student of them and a teacher of them.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“You don’t solve broad issues by policy. You change them by behaviour and values.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“Simplicity is about providing people with a route map.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“Strategy is about simplifying things for people. It’s about finding frameworks that are narrow enough that they mean people are running in roughly the right direction but broad enough that they’ll stand the test of time.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“Simplicity is about finding frameworks that allow people to see the wood from the trees.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“The simplest way to drive up your perception of choice is to take product out because the more product you take out, the easier it is to find what you really want and therefore you feel like your choice has gone up.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“The profound issues that face the world require very long term thinking.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“The theory of unintended consequence means that in almost every aspect of life, what made you great is usually your biggest downfall.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“What AI misses is humanity.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“There aren’t many things that machines can do better than humans.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“There is something unique about the way humans will think that machines won’t replicate.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“The more you read the more you see similar concepts emerging.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“It’s very hard for the brain to inquire once it has become judgemental” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“There is no book out there where you won’t learn something. There is no experience out there where you won’t learn something.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“When you don’t answer emails, more often than not what people will do is take it as implicit permission to go and solve it themselves.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“With delegation risk is way lower than you think. And the reason it's low is because most things are not earth shattering, whether someone gets it right and wrong and even when they get it wrong, it's a phenomenal learning exercise for them.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“Different phases allow you to redress balances” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

“I think the ability not to look back and wish you were doing something that is no longer there is really important. Just look forward to the things you can do.” Dave Cheesewright #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 95: Bess Kalb on kvetching over koans and kindling comic kinship

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“Why are women, who have the whole male world at their mercy, not funny? Please do not pretend to know what I am talking about.”

So begins a 2007 Vanity Fair article by Christopher Hitchens called “Why Women Aren’t Funny”.

College student Bess Kalb picked up a copy of the magazine, read it on her train ride from New York to Rhode Island, and, in her words, “became radicalized.” She decided then and there to drop out of school and become a comedy writer. She scored an internship with The Colbert Report and then (“because I’m an anxious Jew who is the daughter of two anxious Jews”) went back to finish her degree before working for Jimmy Kimmel for eight years. (And scoring a few awards while working there!) She then puts out a “ghost memoir” in 2020 called Nobody Will Tell You This But Me which becomes a big New York Times bestseller and ranked one of the best books of the year by Vogue, Forbes, Wired and others. (Jodi Picoult said “I have not been so profoundly moved by a book in years.”)

Today Bess Kalb is 34 years old. She lives in Hollywood with one kid and another on the way. And she is a truly prolific comedic genius. She’s been nominated for an Emmy and a Writer’s Guild Award and has also written for The Academy Awards, The Democratic National Convention, and her incredible special Yearly Departed (where she is Creator, Executive Producer, and Head Writer).

Do you know Yearly Departed?

Leslie and I loved it. You can stream it on Amazon Prime. (2020 or 2021!) Bess came up with the idea of developing a comic sendoff to 2020 with a mock funeral featuring female comics, each coming onstage to give short eulogies to parts of the year. Tiffany Haddish shows up. Sarah Silverman shows up. Dulcé Sloan shows up. Jane Fonda shows up. It’s a huge hit and she pulls it off again in 2021. It’s fresh and funny and creates wonderfully necessary sign-posts as we navigate the (hopefully?) tail-end of this horrible pandemic.

With the brilliant full moon above our heads let’s sit down with the equally brilliant Bess Kalb to talk about: how we keep anxiety at bay, how we help dismantle celebrity culture, what is one way to define success after making it up the ladder, how might we think about “diversity hiring”, what gender norms are baked into the comedy that we consume, what is a structurally perfect joke, what might a fake male virtual assistant buy you, and much, much, more, including the amazing Bess Kalb’s 3 most formative books.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 95 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • How can we keep our anxiety at bay?

  • How can we ditch celebrity culture?

  • What gender norms are baked into the comedy we consume?

  • What is a structurally perfect joke?

  • What can a virtual male assistant buy you?

  • What’s one way to define career success?

  • How do we take down boy’s clubs?

Notable quotes from bess kalb

“Truth is comedy and drama. That is life. Comedy isn't funny if there isn't pathos in it. Drama doesn't work, if there isn't humanity in it.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“Nobody is better at suspension of reality than kids” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“The late 80s were a good time for child neglect. It was before Instagram showed you that you were a terrible mother.”  Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“I don’t deal with anxiety. I just internalize it. And then I watch the Great British Baking show.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“I think it's really smart in the survival of the species, that who we are attracted to often mirrors what we wish we could be and what we need.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“You can't pull the ladder up behind you. Once you have some modicum of success, the whole point is to create a platform for other people to do the same.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“There are more women on the Supreme Court than in all of late night television.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“I would say the percentage of women who try to be funny and succeed is so much higher than the percentage of men who try to be funny and succeed.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“Most boys clubs that are boys clubs exist because the people at the top hire people who remind them of themselves.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“You will have a funnier show If there are people writing for the show who the audience feels reflects their experience.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“The best comedy late night shows have women on staff.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“Let's create a space where the people who have been excluded and have not been represented by comedy and by stand up just get to do what they want.” Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

“Write what you would like to read. Work with people who are kind. And get the epidural! Bess Kalb #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 94: Dan the Tailor on rappelling rabbit-holes and rocking with Ronnie

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Daniel Torjman is beautiful.

And so is his incredible store 18 Waits.

Two years ago I was walking down Queen Street West in Toronto and I noticed a couple nice men’s shirts in a window and stepped inside. I was greeted by an old hardwood floor, jazz playing on a record, classic literature on display, and an incredibly curated assortment of shirts, coats, bandanas, and hats. I started chatting with owner (tailor! captain!) Daniel Torjman and discovered we were the same age and he was also a fairly new dad trying to figure it all out.

Dan went down to New York and was a student at the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT). He then worked as a production manager for Rogan where he helped open their flagship store in TriBeCa. When he came back to Canada, he turned his attention to conceptualizing 18 Waits which emphasizes quality material and craftsmanship with incredible hand-made, local-made clothes. Every item even has a handwritten number on the tag which shows how many kilometers away from the shop the clothes were made!

I bought a splashy floral shirt and began wearing it to my speeches. Now not an event goes by without someone asking me where I got it. I always tell them to visit Dan and point them to 18waits.com. The clothes are classic, strong, and durable and there’s a patch inside every piece of clothing that reads: “Wear Well. Enjoy. Love. Destroy.”

Are you ready to hang out on a couch with me and Dan? I hope so because I promise you are in for a treat.

We are going to talk about things like: what does it mean to be genuine in a phony world? How should we enjoy the finer things in life without actually being precious with them? How do we think about searching for truth today? How should we think about where to buy our clothes? What helps create the cultural fiber of a city? What are the benefits of intergenerational friendships? Why should we let our teens go on road trips across continents? How do we become more … us? How do we encourage our kids to find themselves in a digital world that constantly pushes us towards the mean? How do we think about our comfort zones when it comes to fashion and ourselves?

Come on in and let’s flip the page into Chapter 94 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • How do you create atmosphere and community in a clothing store?

  • What does it mean to be genuine?

  • How should we enjoy the precious things in life without being precious?

  • What is a laryngectomy?

  • How can we learn to reflect positively after a dramatic event?

  • How do we search for truth?

  • How should we think about where to buy our clothes?

  • Why does globalization engender distrust?

  • What is the cultural fibre of a city?

  • Why is it so important to spread our dollars around?

  • Why should you not partake in trends?

  • What’s it like to meet The Rolling Stones?

  • What are the benefits of intergenerational friendships?

  • How are long and successful  careers sustained?

  • What is the difference between business values and life values?

  • How did LSD experimentation in the 1960s impact music and culture?

  • Why should we let our teenage kids go on road trips?

  • Why was it better to grow up without cell phones?

  • Why is the everyday so beautiful?

  • How can we become more us?

  • How can we encourage our kids to find themselves in a digital world?

  • Why are vinyl records and their liner notes so much richer in content?

  • Why is the number 18 important in the Jewish tradition?

  • How can people learn to wear fashion accessories comfortably?

  • How do books paint pictures?

  • What is the power of a genuine moment?

  • Why don’t we do high school reunions anymore?

  • What is the power of human connection?

Notable quotes from dan the tailor

“It's been a wild ride. We’re still on it. And that’s beautiful.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“Wear well. Enjoy. Love. Destroy” - tags on his shirts - Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“I don’t want you to be precious with it; use the good plates.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“Life is short and this shouldn’t be a once a month or once a year shirt. Enjoy it. Wear it into the ground.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“After cancer, you really think twice about what you're really going to go sideways about.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“You know, when you take a step back, you know, there is so much beauty in life and you find it everywhere and you really got to lean into it. And that’s something we forget to do on a daily basis” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“I think that the most important thing right now is to be supporting local. Supporting your local community, supporting your neighbors, supporting the businesses and the brands and the artists and the musicians that are doing these things in city that you're living in.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“I don’t think it’s about being expensive or fancy. I think it is about being more mindful with where you are spending your dollar.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“We tend to live in a bubble, but there's so much outside of that bubble. And all you have to do is maybe spend time with your grandparents or your neighbors to get out of the bubble.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

On the longevity of the Rolling Stones - “it's because they really believe in it and they really, truly love it. And you can't fake that at least, you know, you can't fake it for a long” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“It comes down to being genuine and finding the real truth and happiness. It has to bring joy.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“My business values are my life values.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“True art is capturing the every day.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“Find beauty in the everyday.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“Finding my identity meant finding who I am, what interests me and is really, really, truly me, not because someone else did (it) or someone else likes it, or ..., you know, forcing myself to love that because that's what's happening.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“Vinyl records were made purposefully so we should consume them purposefully.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“Everything we do is with intention.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“I look at Robert Frank’s photos and they paint an entire picture in my mind of not just the photo I'm looking at but about the moment in the day.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“Books paint a huge visual picture for us.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“The over documentation of everything is  pretty insane. And the problem with it is that in so doing, we're forgetting to actually live.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

“There are a lot of things that are lost when you're trying to capture something perfectly on a video or on a photo. You're looking at the screen to make something perfect on a screen, but you're missing everything else around it. And that's part of the beauty and the magic in the first place.” Dan the Tailor #3bookspodcast

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The Best of 2021: Neil Pasricha curates courageous, candid, and colorful conversations

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Can you believe it?

We started 3 Books back on March 31, 2018 with the goal of counting down the 1000 most formative books in the world. We said we would hang out on the exact minute of every single new moon and every single full moon for nearly 15 straight years until we collected all 1000 of them. We set the intention of making this show an ‘intrinsically-motivated journey’ and pledged to doing it with no ads, no sponsors, no commercials, and no interruptions. To help guide ourselves we started collecting Values like no book shame, no book guilt, quit more to read more, and the books are the hero.

For the nearly four years we’ve been hanging out I have to say this journey has felt like a warm ray of sun in my life. I hope it’s felt the same for you. My goal with this annual “Best Of” is simply to roll back through the year together and pick out moments that made us pause, ponder, and savor.

Thank you for being a 3 Booker and spending time with this incredible community of book lovers spread across the world. If you’re reading this, I love you more than lots.

Let’s stop to reflect and then keep enjoying the ride.

 
 
 
 
 
 

Chapter 93: Chris Hadfield on the sci-fi and science of sustainable space settlement

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Hello 3 Bookers!

Let’s close off our fourth year of 3 Books by sitting down with Chris Hadfield at his kitchen table. His five-month old puppy New Henry is sniffling and occasionally barking on his lap. Fat snowflakes slowly drift down outside the big window above the shelf full of succulents. And lying between us is a stack of Christmas cards that Chris is signing along with my copy of his brand new bestselling thriller The Apollo Murders … as well, of course, as his three most formative books.

Commander Chris Hadfield has lived in outer space for six months. Six months! He was named Top Test Pilot in both the US Air Force and the US Navy and has flown on three space missions, helped build two space stations, and commanded the International Space Station.

While hanging out in space Chris wasn’t just doing experiments. He was also serving as a global educator. Teaching people through YouTube and social media how to cook in space, sleep in space, and even clip your nails in space. He sent us pictures of Earth from low orbit and helped us see our planet and ourselves in a new light. And while circling Earth over two thousand times — once about every hour and a half, he says — he also made time to create the first ever music video shot in space. You’ve probably seen his cover of David Bowie’s “Space Oddity” which has now been viewed over 100 million times.

So: he’s an astronaut and a rock star? Yes, but that’s not all. Chris has given one of the most popular TED Talks of all time and is also a hugely bestselling author.

In 2013 he put out An Astronaut’s Guide to Life, one of the most popular memoirs in the past decade and an international bestseller for over five years. He followed that up with a photo book called You are Here and then followed that up with a lovely children’s book called The Darkest Dark. And now? Well, never content to rest on his laurels and always interested in exploring new terrain, Chris has just put out his first ever novel.

Is there anything Chris Hadfield can’t do??

I suppose NASA only selects the most perfect specimens on earth but how does somebody learn how to just … write a novel? How exactly does he think about studying the art and then creating it? What can we all learn from his combined passions for curiosity, self-learning, and self-discipline?

Plus, since Chris is one of the most decorated astronauts in the world, we also get to discuss what space travel might look like in our lifetime and our children’s lifetimes. Chris will tell us how 70,000 years ago some thought it was foolish to leave Africa … and yet some did. How 18,000 years ago some thought it was foolish to walk over ice to North America … and yet some did. How 50 years ago some thought it was foolish to blast ourselves into outer space … and yet some did. How today and in the near future some will say it’s foolish to settle on the moon or Mars … and yet some will.

I found this conversation mind-expanding on many levels. It pairs wonderfully well with The Apollo Murders which I hope you’ll check out. I’m excited for you to hang out at Chris’s kitchen table with us. I’ll be in your left ear, Chris will be in your right, and Chris is wondering if you’d like a coffee or a glass of water before we begin?

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 93 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • What is the beauty of writing Christmas cards?

  • What compels an astronaut to write a book?

  • What is the Astronaut’s prayer?

  • How do you prepare for space flight?

  • What is the first question writers should ask themselves?

  • Why should all aspiring writers read On Writing by Stephen King?

  • What do the best mystery and thriller writers have in common?

  • What do mazes and writing have in common?

  • What is the future of space flight?

  • What would humans need to survive on Mars?

  • How can we peacefully settle the moon, and further afield, as a species?

  • What do all new settlement ventures have in common?

  • What is the Earth-Moon economic system?

  • Why do astronauts often live well into their nineties?

  • What are the common attributes of an astronaut?

  • Why should we create much more mundane bucket lists?

  • How should we shape our view of the world?

Notable quotes from commander chris hadfield

“Books are a mind expanding experience which allow you to be a part of other people’s imagination.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“Writing is a personal act which helps get one’s thoughts together too.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“Start by asking why? Why am I writing this?” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“I think the novel is failing if I can set it down and don’t care because then it is popcorn entertainment versus a rich 3 course meal entertainment.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“There’s a lot of fact in fiction.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“The moon is a huge untapped geological resource.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“There are a lot of Mysterious Islands out there.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“You lose weight in the kitchen and you get strong in the gym.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“Always take the stairs. Carry your own bag. Walk if you can.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“Be deliberate in what you eat. It is one of the few things you can control. Move consciously everyday. Stay mentally engaged, stay motivated and be a student your whole life.”Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“If there is one unifying definition of an astronaut it is the perpetual dissatisfaction with their own level of skill.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“People begrudge the internet. What an incredible resource to access all the information of the world.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“If you are not learning another language, you need to answer to yourself. Why not?” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“You need to set your own measures of success.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“If you hate the process of your own life in the hopes that someday someone will acknowledge something, you’re not going to be healthy. You’re not going to be happy.” Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“Take pleasure and delight in your own happiness.”Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

“Build your picture of the world based on factfulness and then read the news rather than letting however the news was skewed and hammered at you force your version of the world.”Commander Chris Hadfield #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 92: Edward Packard on amplifying awareness with awe and adventure

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Were you one of the 500 million people who read Choose Your Own Adventure books?

When I was growing up in the 80s these books were at the front of every library in every elementary school. Or, at least, in mine! I know for sure the kids at Sunset Heights Public School in Oshawa, Canada all went gonzo for them.

If you don’t know Choose Your Own Adventure, the books are written in the second person. The protagonist is … you! Who are you? Well, you might be a private investigator, mountain climber, race car driver, doctor, or spy. The stories are gender and race neutral and written so that after a couple of pages, you face a couple of options: do you want to go deeper into the jungle or head back to shore? Do you want to follow the guide up the mountain or retreat to the village? You zig and you zag and each book features dozens of endings. With no clear pattern around number of pages per ending, ratio of good to bad endings, or the reader’s progression backwards and forwards, there is a vertiginous sense of unpredictability which leads to (yes) reading them again and again.

Cover to Cover Club members will have heard us talk about these books already. Do you remember back in Chapter 42 when Molly Bloom told us the books were hugely formative to how she views her life as an adventure? Or just a few moons ago in Chapter 87 when Jason Shiga picked Sugar Cane Island by Edward Packard — a precursor to CYOA — as one of his most formative books?

Well, it’s with that lead-up that I’m so excited to share our conversation with the creator of second-person fiction and co-creator of Choose Your Own Adventure today —- Mr. Edward Packard. Edward is 90 years old and writing, blogging, swimming, hiking, and continuing the adventure that is life from his home in Durango, Colorado.

Get comfy and let’s talk about what the word formative really means, whether our self stays constant throughout our life, how the advent of chronology affected human development, where the best place to get a lot of reading done is, how should we take in the news, how can we maintain a sense of contentment as we age, how do we transcend ourselves, what is an unhappy versus a happy brain, what is quality decision making, how do we process past success in our current state, and, of course, what are Edward Packard’s 3 most formative books.

Are you ready to dive in on today’s new moon?

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 92 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • How does 3 Books deal with guests picking the same formative book?

  • What does the word “formative” really mean?

  • What does it mean to live life in a narrative vs. non narrative fashion?

  • Does our self stay constant or change throughout our life?

  • How has the advent of chronology and the measure of time affected human development?

  • Where is the best place to get a lot of reading done?

  • How should we best take in the news?

  • How can we maintain a sense of contentment as we age?

  • How do we transcend ourselves?

  • What is an unhappy brain?

  • What is a happy brain?

  • What is quality decision making?

  • How do we process past success in our current state?

Notable quotes from edward packard

“Some books are formative the wrong way.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

“I like the idea that you’re not one self after another but you’re the same self and you also function on a higher plane in which you are beyond yourself and in which you see things from a more cosmic perspective.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

“We should consume the news to save democracy, to participate, be informed and be activists.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

We shouldn’t be obsessed by the news without doing anything about it; we shouldn’t walk away from it.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

“If you try to live well, live a good life, one that you don’t feel remorseful about when you are very old then you’ll be more settled in your thinking, more content in your older age knowing that you tried to be a good person and have lived life to the full.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

“I don’t want to be bitter, or remorseful, or have regret, or sink into some sort of stupor about my mistakes but rather draw some kind of energy from having had insight and getting to a new place.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

“The term self transcendence is basically a metaphor for a process in which you are able to see things from a larger perspective than your own egotistical striving.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

“On major things, the analysis may be quite simple but whether you make the right decision or not will depend upon your state of mind, on whether you’re fully self constituted and you have a moral compass that is true and good.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

“I made it a policy in the Choose Your Own Adventure books that although you might be given the choice of a stupid decision, you’d never be given the choice of a cruel decision, or one that would be harmful to others. I assumed that you the reader are a good person.” Edward Packard #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 91: Nora McInerny on nixing numbers and nurturing naked needs

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Welcome to Chapter 91 of 3 Books!

How are you holding up in 2021? It has been a wild 20 months.

You’ve been telling me you are thankful for the show and I have been telling you I’m thankful for you. I appreciate your notes, your phone calls, your letters, and your reviews and we travel and meet across space and time — meeting up whenever the moon above is is completely full or completely empty.

Today I am so thrilled to share with you the enigmatic, witty, multi-hyphenate Nora McInerny.

In 2014 Nora went through a deeply traumatic six weeks. She had a miscarriage, lost her father, and lost her husband Aaron with whom she had a young son. She spent the next year of her life couch surfing, staying with friends, trying to process the loss, the grief and the trauma. And what has emerged is somebody who I feel is at the world’s leading edge of discussing things like grief, trauma, loss, widowhood, and how we navigate forward with those all bottled up inside us.

Nora is the successful author of It’s OK to Laugh, Crying is Cool Too, No Happy Endings, The Hot Young Widow’s Club, and the movie novelization of Bad Moms. (Shoutout to Chapter 82 with Quentin Tarantino!).

Nora gave a wonderful TED Talk called “We don’t move on from grief; we move forward with it” which, at the time of me writing this, has 5,798,513 views.

But all that stuff — the books! the talks! — are probably not as well known as her spectacular, award-winning podcast Terrible, Thanks for Asking (TTFA).

If you don’t already, check it out — subscribe, listen, and love. I was lucky enough to be a guest a year and a half ago and Nora gave me permission to share the audio in a 3 Books Bookmark this past March.

Nora McInerny is coming to us from her closet in Arizona, where she is now resettled into a new relationship, co-parenting her child with her new husband’s children.

Get cozy in between us and let’s the three of us hang out and talk about: intentional parenting, grief processing, shininess vs work, sliding scales of empathy, dating after divorce, navigating our deepest needs, and, of course, the one and only Nora McInerny’s 3 most formative books.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 91 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • What is emotional coziness?

  • How do we navigate self-consciousness?

  • What makes children’s books so unique?

  • How can we better understand our values?

  • How can we process our grief?

  • What is the difference between processing versus coping with grief?

  • What is the difference between grief and depression?

  • How soon should you start dating after becoming a widower?

  • Why is the grief of divorce or breakups underestimated?

  • Why is it so important to convey the humanity of experiences vs the absurdity?

  • How do you turn the mundane into the interesting?

  • How can we curb digital self harm?

  • What is the value of effort?

  • What is digital enlightenment?

  • Why is categorization counterproductive?

Notable quotes from nora mcinerny:

“Reading does not have to be an act of snobbery.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“The best novels allow you to become the main character.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“The best kids books..involve children sort of making their own way through the adult world unseen and outwitting all the grownups.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“I do not value the shininess of things as much as I value the work of things.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“I like to start things that I feel like anyone could be there, that anyone could join.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“What I’ve learned from widowhood is this sliding scale of empathy. I’ve learned that grief is somehow universal and wholly personal and that the only people who want to judge it have not been there.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“I do not think that people give enough recognition to that specific grief of divorce or the end of a relationship.”  Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“I don’t have to have a super fascinating life; life is fascinating.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“We all have this need. From the moment we’re born, all we want is to be seen and known.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“Nobody posts on social media as an act of service. … We post because it will have a part of us be seen.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“There is a difference between doing well and being well.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“The constant struggle is how do you separate the success of a thing you have created from your own value as a person.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“All we are is a series of unmet needs being passed down from generation to generation.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“People don’t like brands; people like people.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“It’s OK if you do not have an elevator pitch… It’s like getting in the willy wonka elevator. Who knows where we are going. Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“Lanes are for cars and horses and we are neither of those things.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

“Whatever success is, it’s a slow frickin burn.” Nora McInerny #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 90: Derek Sivers on shattering suppositions with Stoic soul

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Welcome.

Have a seat on the couch. Plug your headphones in for the dishes. Strap in for the long car ride. Let’s chill for a bit.

I’m so happy to have you as part of the 3 Books community. Welcome 3 Bookers! Welcome, Cover to Cover Club Members! And welcome, Secret Club Members. Thank you for being part of our ridiculous conversation over nearly 15 years. I was in my late 30s when I started 3 Books and I’ll be in my early 50s when I’m done.

What a joy this pilgrimage has been so far! Just think about the amazing conversations we’ve had this year. Quentin Tarantino from his writer’s studio. Shirley the Nurse in the gas station parking parking lot. Did you like Zafar in Chapter 89? Did you fall in love with Zafar the Hamburger Man like I did? How about Brené Brown, Adam Grant, Georges Saunders, Dave Eggers, Douglas Rushkoff, and Jenny Lawson? It’s been a wonderful year. And it’s not over. It’s just getting better and better.

Today I have someone who Tim Ferriss describes as a “philosopher-operator and poet-recluse of the highest order.”

A very apt and astute description.

Because who exactly is Derek Sivers?

Well, he’s a guy who’s given three TED Talks with over nine million views like: How to Start a Movement, Keep Your Goals to Yourself, and Weird, Or Just Different? (I actually used his TED Talks as part of leadership training at Walmart!) His “first follower” principle was a wonderful introduction in Leadership 101. A three-minute TED Talk substituting for a year in a college lecture hall.

And maybe that’s kind of … Derek.

A master distiller boiling things down into their most vital, vital components. His website Sivers.org is like a minimalist website from 1997. Looks like Amazon before they launched graphics. Yet it’s extremely functional and absolutely teeming with wisdom.

It’s also the only place to get his books!

Yes, books. Many books!

He writes and publishes them on his website. He doesn’t care about going through the big publishers and he doesn’t care about being available on Amazon.

I just read and recommended Hell Yeah or No: What’s Worth Doing in my book club and can’t wait to get his new book How To Live.

Sometimes I wish I could write as pithy and wise as Derek. A good example of that is in my most recent book, You Are Awesome, I was looking for a way to open the book and I came across this Taoist fable called The Farmer with One Horse. A couple thousand year old story! I spent so much time looking for the absolute tightest, shortest version of the fable and guess where I ended up? Sivers.org, of course. I asked Derek if I could use his version of the fable as the opening to my book and he said yes.

Kind Derek, generous Derek, singular Derek.

And Giver Derek. Why does he give so much? Why does he post his personal email address and answer every email? Why does he sell his hardcover books … at cost!? What’s behind all this? Well I asked him and I think his answer might surprise you.

Derek Sivers is one of the most innovative thinkers around.

Buckle up, take a seat and let’s listen to him share wisdom on things like: why you should rename the rooms of your house, why you should aspire to read slow, why it is more important to question answers than answer questions, what is the game of catch that is played between readers and writers, what can we learn from the grandfather of self-help, how can we learn to distill big thoughts into small words, how can we thrive in an unknowable future, how do we prepare for death and financial insecurity, why shouldn’t we try to remember people’s names, what is the slightly counterintuitive purpose to any conference that you go to in person, why should we consider changing jobs every couple of years, what would you have talking parrots say in a utopia, and, of course what are the eminent Derek Sivers’ three most formative books…

Are you ready?

Let’s turn the page into Chapter 90 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • Why should you change the names of the rooms in your house?

  • Why should you learn slow?

  • Why is it more important to question answers than to answer questions?

  • Why should we take the time to revisit our reading?

  • What is the game of catch between the reader and the writer?

  • Who was the grandfather of the Self Help Movement?

  • What is Stoicism?

  • How can we thrive in an unknowable future?

  • How do we prepare for death?

  • How do we prepare for financial insecurity?

  • Why should we separate what we love from what makes money?

  • When shouldn’t we learn to remember people’s names?

  • How can we optimize time at conferences?

  • How can we make people listening to us like us?

  • How do we stop worrying and start living?

  • Why should we consider changing jobs every 2 years?

  • Why does risk lead to growth?

  • What is delayed gratification and why is it so important?

  • What are the different time focus types and how do they change one’s view of the world?

  • How should we measure success?

  • What is flow?

  • How can we make time for reading?

Notable quotes from derek sivers:

“I don't ever want to have to read that whole book again. I just want to reflect deeper on those ideas I found most interesting in the book.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“The book is not the be all, end all. It's the beginning of a conversation. A game of catch between the writer and the reader. It is a collaboration in order to raise your understanding.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“The biggest thing I believe now is instead of looking at the bright side — make peace with the worst.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“In my value system, being considerate and being useful is more important than being completely authentic and brutally honest.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“I'm a half-ass writer, but a ruthless editor.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“I think the best marketing is just being considerate.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“A hundred times a day, you're presented with a choice between safety and risk. Make the growth choice a hundred times a day.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“The ability to delay gratification is one of the best skills you could ever develop, especially in a kid.”Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“I don't worship the book. All I want are some of the good ideas inside that I can use. Once I extract those ideas, I'll trash the book. I can disconnect the idea from its source.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“I'm more of a cataloger of ideas and not a cataloger of books.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“The less you say the more likely they are to hear it.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 89: Zafar the Hamburger Man on Bryant's basics and blossoming like Barack

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I was riding my bike in downtown Toronto the other day and rolled past my old neighborhood a couple blocks north of Lake Ontario. And as I was riding I noticed my old burger joint! The whole neighborhood has changed — parking lots have become condos, motels have become hotels — but the burger joint has survived. I was excited so I locked my bike up in the middle of the concrete jungle and popped my head inside to ask if they’re open since it was just after 11am.

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“Absolutely we’re open!,” a friendly guy in a black T-shirt and black cap shouted. “Come on in!”

I told him I used to come down here a long time ago and he quickly replied, “Well, welcome back! We’re glad to have you back!”

Aggressive friendliness turns me on so I start talking to the guy and discover his name is Zafar and he owns six restaurants in Toronto. He scrapped and saved his way up from Lahore, Pakistan, where he was a manager of a KFC and then emigrated to Canada to start managing a local chicken franchise. He saved everything he had and made a big bet to buy his own burger joint. This money losing burger joint in downtown Toronto that was making $470,000 a year but losing over $200,000 a year.

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What do you do with that?

Well, if you’re Zafar The Hamburger Man you more than double sales in the first year. I asked him how he did it and discovered an endless treasure trove of leadership and service wisdom. Unsurprisingly, Zafar is a big reader and he had three formative books at the ready.

This chapter of 3 Books will be a voyage for your senses. Prepare to come inside Big Smoke Burger, listen to The Beatles coming out of the speakers, hear the grill sizzling, the stapler closing paper bags, and then hang out with me and Zafar on the street outside as we discuss books, life, and everything.

Let’s talk about the cost of obsession, the importance of mastering the basics, what we can learn from doers, why feedback is so precious and vital, how we embrace and offer the gift of time, how we seek the truth, how we build trust, and much, much, much more…

I am so excited to introduce you to Zafar The Hamburger Man!

Let’s turn the page into Chapter 89 now …

What You'll Learn:

  • What does it take to survive in the restaurant business?

  • What is the cost of obsession in business?

  • What is the importance of the big tech giants in running a business today?

  • Why are the basics so critical?

  • What can we learn from those truly in the trenches?

  • What can we learn from the doers?

  • What is the tension between choice and the lesser evil?

  • Why is feedback so vital?

  • Who will give you the most sincere feedback in your lifetime?

  • How do you cultivate leadership and respect when there is no economic relationship?

  • What is the gift of time?

  • How do you become lucky?

  • Why is generosity so important in business and in life?

Notable quotes from zafar:

“It is a blessing to work with the hands.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The restaurant business is like the casino business — one day you win and one day you lose.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The reason you do the restaurant business is because you like people.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The restaurant business is very simple deep down. You’ve got to care and you’ve got to take pride.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“You’ve got to own three things: you don’t blame people, you don’t complain, and you don’t make excuses.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The most beautiful things happen when you take care of the basics.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Growth comes with the failure.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“There’s a lot of self-help books but people who are writing these books have never been successful. You’ve got to listen to people who have done it, who have been in the trenches.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Life is going to give you choices. Choose the lesser evil.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Humans build trust through communication.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“You’ve got to treat your employees like your kids.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Three things are very hard in life: diamonds, steel and listening about yourself from other people.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

On life: “take what it gives you and make it better.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Technology is BS: it is robbing you of your time.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

Time is a depreciating asset. Time is the gift we give to each other.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

"The tree which has the most fruit bends the most." Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The harder you work the luckier you get.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“You become lucky by giving. The more you give the more you get.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

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