Chapter 90: Derek Sivers on shattering suppositions with Stoic soul

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Welcome.

Have a seat on the couch. Plug your headphones in for the dishes. Strap in for the long car ride. Let’s chill for a bit.

I’m so happy to have you as part of the 3 Books community. Welcome 3 Bookers! Welcome, Cover to Cover Club Members! And welcome, Secret Club Members. Thank you for being part of our ridiculous conversation over nearly 15 years. I was in my late 30s when I started 3 Books and I’ll be in my early 50s when I’m done.

What a joy this pilgrimage has been so far! Just think about the amazing conversations we’ve had this year. Quentin Tarantino from his writer’s studio. Shirley the Nurse in the gas station parking parking lot. Did you like Zafar in Chapter 89? Did you fall in love with Zafar the Hamburger Man like I did? How about Brené Brown, Adam Grant, Georges Saunders, Dave Eggers, Douglas Rushkoff, and Jenny Lawson? It’s been a wonderful year. And it’s not over. It’s just getting better and better.

Today I have someone who Tim Ferriss describes as a “philosopher-operator and poet-recluse of the highest order.”

A very apt and astute description.

Because who exactly is Derek Sivers?

Well, he’s a guy who’s given three TED Talks with over nine million views like: How to Start a Movement, Keep Your Goals to Yourself, and Weird, Or Just Different? (I actually used his TED Talks as part of leadership training at Walmart!) His “first follower” principle was a wonderful introduction in Leadership 101. A three-minute TED Talk substituting for a year in a college lecture hall.

And maybe that’s kind of … Derek.

A master distiller boiling things down into their most vital, vital components. His website Sivers.org is like a minimalist website from 1997. Looks like Amazon before they launched graphics. Yet it’s extremely functional and absolutely teeming with wisdom.

It’s also the only place to get his books!

Yes, books. Many books!

He writes and publishes them on his website. He doesn’t care about going through the big publishers and he doesn’t care about being available on Amazon.

I just read and recommended Hell Yeah or No: What’s Worth Doing in my book club and can’t wait to get his new book How To Live.

Sometimes I wish I could write as pithy and wise as Derek. A good example of that is in my most recent book, You Are Awesome, I was looking for a way to open the book and I came across this Taoist fable called The Farmer with One Horse. A couple thousand year old story! I spent so much time looking for the absolute tightest, shortest version of the fable and guess where I ended up? Sivers.org, of course. I asked Derek if I could use his version of the fable as the opening to my book and he said yes.

Kind Derek, generous Derek, singular Derek.

And Giver Derek. Why does he give so much? Why does he post his personal email address and answer every email? Why does he sell his hardcover books … at cost!? What’s behind all this? Well I asked him and I think his answer might surprise you.

Derek Sivers is one of the most innovative thinkers around.

Buckle up, take a seat and let’s listen to him share wisdom on things like: why you should rename the rooms of your house, why you should aspire to read slow, why it is more important to question answers than answer questions, what is the game of catch that is played between readers and writers, what can we learn from the grandfather of self-help, how can we learn to distill big thoughts into small words, how can we thrive in an unknowable future, how do we prepare for death and financial insecurity, why shouldn’t we try to remember people’s names, what is the slightly counterintuitive purpose to any conference that you go to in person, why should we consider changing jobs every couple of years, what would you have talking parrots say in a utopia, and, of course what are the eminent Derek Sivers’ three most formative books…

Are you ready?

Let’s turn the page into Chapter 90 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • Why should you change the names of the rooms in your house?

  • Why should you learn slow?

  • Why is it more important to question answers than to answer questions?

  • Why should we take the time to revisit our reading?

  • What is the game of catch between the reader and the writer?

  • Who was the grandfather of the Self Help Movement?

  • What is Stoicism?

  • How can we thrive in an unknowable future?

  • How do we prepare for death?

  • How do we prepare for financial insecurity?

  • Why should we separate what we love from what makes money?

  • When shouldn’t we learn to remember people’s names?

  • How can we optimize time at conferences?

  • How can we make people listening to us like us?

  • How do we stop worrying and start living?

  • Why should we consider changing jobs every 2 years?

  • Why does risk lead to growth?

  • What is delayed gratification and why is it so important?

  • What are the different time focus types and how do they change one’s view of the world?

  • How should we measure success?

  • What is flow?

  • How can we make time for reading?

Notable quotes from derek sivers:

“I don't ever want to have to read that whole book again. I just want to reflect deeper on those ideas I found most interesting in the book.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“The book is not the be all, end all. It's the beginning of a conversation. A game of catch between the writer and the reader. It is a collaboration in order to raise your understanding.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“The biggest thing I believe now is instead of looking at the bright side — make peace with the worst.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“In my value system, being considerate and being useful is more important than being completely authentic and brutally honest.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“I'm a half-ass writer, but a ruthless editor.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“I think the best marketing is just being considerate.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“A hundred times a day, you're presented with a choice between safety and risk. Make the growth choice a hundred times a day.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“The ability to delay gratification is one of the best skills you could ever develop, especially in a kid.”Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“I don't worship the book. All I want are some of the good ideas inside that I can use. Once I extract those ideas, I'll trash the book. I can disconnect the idea from its source.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“I'm more of a cataloger of ideas and not a cataloger of books.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

“The less you say the more likely they are to hear it.” Derek Sivers #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 89: Zafar the Hamburger Man on Bryant's basics and blossoming like Barack

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I was riding my bike in downtown Toronto the other day and rolled past my old neighborhood a couple blocks north of Lake Ontario. And as I was riding I noticed my old burger joint! The whole neighborhood has changed — parking lots have become condos, motels have become hotels — but the burger joint has survived. I was excited so I locked my bike up in the middle of the concrete jungle and popped my head inside to ask if they’re open since it was just after 11am.

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“Absolutely we’re open!,” a friendly guy in a black T-shirt and black cap shouted. “Come on in!”

I told him I used to come down here a long time ago and he quickly replied, “Well, welcome back! We’re glad to have you back!”

Aggressive friendliness turns me on so I start talking to the guy and discover his name is Zafar and he owns six restaurants in Toronto. He scrapped and saved his way up from Lahore, Pakistan, where he was a manager of a KFC and then emigrated to Canada to start managing a local chicken franchise. He saved everything he had and made a big bet to buy his own burger joint. This money losing burger joint in downtown Toronto that was making $470,000 a year but losing over $200,000 a year.

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What do you do with that?

Well, if you’re Zafar The Hamburger Man you more than double sales in the first year. I asked him how he did it and discovered an endless treasure trove of leadership and service wisdom. Unsurprisingly, Zafar is a big reader and he had three formative books at the ready.

This chapter of 3 Books will be a voyage for your senses. Prepare to come inside Big Smoke Burger, listen to The Beatles coming out of the speakers, hear the grill sizzling, the stapler closing paper bags, and then hang out with me and Zafar on the street outside as we discuss books, life, and everything.

Let’s talk about the cost of obsession, the importance of mastering the basics, what we can learn from doers, why feedback is so precious and vital, how we embrace and offer the gift of time, how we seek the truth, how we build trust, and much, much, much more…

I am so excited to introduce you to Zafar The Hamburger Man!

Let’s turn the page into Chapter 89 now …

What You'll Learn:

  • What does it take to survive in the restaurant business?

  • What is the cost of obsession in business?

  • What is the importance of the big tech giants in running a business today?

  • Why are the basics so critical?

  • What can we learn from those truly in the trenches?

  • What can we learn from the doers?

  • What is the tension between choice and the lesser evil?

  • Why is feedback so vital?

  • Who will give you the most sincere feedback in your lifetime?

  • How do you cultivate leadership and respect when there is no economic relationship?

  • What is the gift of time?

  • How do you become lucky?

  • Why is generosity so important in business and in life?

Notable quotes from zafar:

“It is a blessing to work with the hands.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The restaurant business is like the casino business — one day you win and one day you lose.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The reason you do the restaurant business is because you like people.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The restaurant business is very simple deep down. You’ve got to care and you’ve got to take pride.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“You’ve got to own three things: you don’t blame people, you don’t complain, and you don’t make excuses.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The most beautiful things happen when you take care of the basics.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Growth comes with the failure.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“There’s a lot of self-help books but people who are writing these books have never been successful. You’ve got to listen to people who have done it, who have been in the trenches.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Life is going to give you choices. Choose the lesser evil.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Humans build trust through communication.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“You’ve got to treat your employees like your kids.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Three things are very hard in life: diamonds, steel and listening about yourself from other people.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

On life: “take what it gives you and make it better.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“Technology is BS: it is robbing you of your time.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

Time is a depreciating asset. Time is the gift we give to each other.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

"The tree which has the most fruit bends the most." Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“The harder you work the luckier you get.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

“You become lucky by giving. The more you give the more you get.” Zafar the Hamburger Man #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 88: Mel Robbins on stalling self sabotage and celebrating sexual selectivity

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I love Mel Robbins.

I am one of the 30 million people who’ve viewed her TED Talk “How to stop screwing yourself over” and I’m one of the two million people who have a copy of The Five-Second Rule on my bookshelf. If you asked me five years ago if I’d have a book on my shelf telling people to simply count backwards from five to get out of bed, ask somebody out, or leave a toxic relationship well … I would have thought you were batty.

But that would have been just a few months before I met Mel and when I heard the way she talked about it and the science behind it, well … I was all in. It’s no wonder her videos have over a billion views or why Sony Pictures asked her to host an eponymous daytime talk show. Because there is something singularly captivating about the no-nonsense-science-backed-habits-from-a-Midwestern-farmer type way Mel thinks, writes, and speaks.

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Do you have plans today? If you have an hour or two free why don’t you pull up a chair with us in Bryant Park in midtown Manhattan on a warm and sunny afternoon and let’s the three of us give a pub day toast to Mel’s new book The High 5 Habit and discuss some of life’s biggest themes through her three most formative books.

Let’s turn the page into Chapter 88 now…

What You'll Learn:

  • What do having a child and writing a book have in common?

  • How can an author detach themselves from what their book will or will not accomplish?

  • Why do we need external validation?

  • What is the power of dopamine?

  • What is the power of celebratory energy?

  • How can we stop squandering time?

  • What is successful parenting?

  • How should we think about proximity to family as we age?

  • How should we talk about sex with our kids?

  • How can we talk to our kids about the experience of sex?

  • How should we talk to kids about pornography?

  • Why are we uncomfortable talking about sex and pleasure?

  • What are the perils of breast implants?

  • How should we think about career shifts?

  • How should we define success?

  • How do we gain the courage to pursue our dreams?

  • Why should you ask yourself if you want to high-five your job?

  • What is a high-five marriage?

Notable quotes from mel robbins:

“There is a difference between the impact that I want my book to make and the fact that I am a competitive mother fucker that wants to win.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“There is a part of me like everybody else that longs to have that external validation.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“I am merely using science to help you take programming that is already in your mind and in your nervous system and aiming it back at you.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“Your brain doesn’t know the difference between someone high-fiving you and you high-fiving yourself.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“Even on your crappiest days, you high-five yourself, you don’t say a frickin word, your brain drips dopamine.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“It’s only when I started to look at myself in the mirror and give myself the support and the encouragement and the kindness that I really wanted from other people that I really started to understand the real power of sourcing that for yourself.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

The joy in most relationships is just the joy of being together.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“We think the secret to a great relationship is to give give give give give give and do whatever the other person asks but the real magic in your life is just being with people.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“When you learn how to stand tall and firm and know that you are worthy, just because you are here, it’s a totally different way to go through life.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“Everybody is hiding something. Everybody is putting something out there but thinking something else.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“You should teach your kids about sex and intimacy and commitment and self respect and pleasure.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

On young people having sex: “If you cannot actually talk about it, you’re not ready for it.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

On her anxiety in law school: “It's like jumping into a river that's heading toward a dam that you're going to drown in and not knowing how to get out of the current.” - Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“Perspective only comes from experience” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

On pursuing the dream: “Don’t quit. Stay there and suffer. And work on something else. And then it'll get to a point where the pain is too much and you'll finally get off your ass and then you'll quit because you will have built a runway.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

“Never leave a bathroom without high-fiving the human being you see in the mirror, send yourself back into the game of life, knowing that you have your own back.” Mel Robbins #3bookspodcast

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Bookmark: Ologies

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Happy Fall Equinox Northern Hemisphere people. And Happy Spring Equinox to our friends south of the equator!

Are you ready for a new Bookmark? Just as a reminder, I’m experimenting with offering you a Bookmark four times this year. A little place to put the marginilia of this show.

Six months ago on the Spring equinox we had our first bookmark with my guest appearance on Nora McInerny’s award winning podcast Terrible, Thanks for Asking. For the second Bookmark, on the exact minute of the June solstice of course, I shared my SXSW speech “Building trust in distrustful times.”

And now today, on the Fall equinox, I’m sharing my appearance on Ologies. Alie Ward goes around the world sniffing out interesting people — often but not always scientists — and gets them to go deep on their speciality. Ologies has grown to one of the largest podcasts in the world and is often tops in all of Science. Am I surprised? Not really! Alie is one of the hardest-working people I have ever met and with a science, journalism, and Emmy-Winning comedy writing background, she’s got the killer cocktail of somebody who you just want to listen to more and more and more. On top of that, she’s kindhearted, deeply empathetic, and has a … nerdy nose, I’ll call it. I just mean she’s a nerdy who sniffs out other nerds so well.

I was extremely flattered to be a guest on the show. (Our matchmaker was the legendary Jane McGonigal of Chapter 85 — you can see the tweet stuck in amber! — and the title of the episode was “Awesomeology” which I didn’t think was actually a word but Alie proved otherwise.

Alie has very graciously given me permission to share this episode of Ologies with all of you and I’m very thankful. And yes, that all bodes especially well since generosity and gratitude are scientifically shown to make us happier. Merely two of the dozens of studies we talk about on this show!

Please consider subscribing to Ologies. It is a magnificent show adding so much love to the world.

Now let’s jump into the Bookmark now…

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Chapter 87: Jason Shiga on perilous puzzles and precarious paths

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I grew up reading the Choose Your Own Adventure series but it had been years — decades even! — since I’d read a game book. Then I stumbled upon the fascinating book Meanwhile by Jason Shiga and was completely sucked back into this incredible genre.

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When you open Meanwhile you are a young boy on his way to an ice-cream shop. If you get vanilla? You go home. The end! But if you get chocolate? You plunge into thousands of endlessly splintering storylines. You meet a mad scientist. You jump in a time travel machine. The fate of the world is suddenly at stake!

I have no idea how someone could imagine a book this complex and yet so elegant to experience. I was sucked in. So I reach out to Jason Shiga and was grateful that he agreed to come on 3 Books.

Jason is a Japanese-American cartoonist who incorporates puzzles, mysteries and unconventional — very unconventional — narrative techniques into his work. He grew up in California and studied Pure Mathematics at the University of Berkeley.

Jason has been the ‘Maze Specialist’ for McSweeney’s Quarterly (founded by Dave Eggers, our guest in Chapter 81!), written for Nickelodeon, SpongeBob SquarePants, and much more. He’s also won a number of awards including the Eisner and the Ignatz and has written a number of additional books, including Book Hunter and Demon.

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What are we going to talk about on this show? Well there is a lot to learn including: what is a Japanese chicken commune? How does children’s literature address taboos we have around death? How can a love of puzzles inform creativity? What are moral dilemmas and what can we learn from them? What is the ‘classic trolley problem’? What is the relationship between books and video games? What is the state of the game book industry? How do we think about playing with a book? And, of course, what are Jason Shiga’s three most formative books?

Let’s turn the page into Chapter 87 now …

What You'll Learn:

  • Why is death taboo in children’s literature?

  • What is pure mathematics?

  • How can a love of puzzles and brain teasers inform creative work?

  • What is elegance of form?

  • What is an interactive form of literature?

  • What can we learn from moral dilemmas and the state of humanity today?

  • Why are moral choices so good for game books?

  • What’s the classic trolley problem?

  • How can books and video games co-exist?

  • What is the state of the game book industry today?

  • How can we encourage our kids to get into game books?

  • How does one play with a book?

Notable quotes from Jason shiga:

“For me, the greatest graphics processor of all time is a child's imagination.” Jason Shiga #3bookspodcast

“When you read a book, when you read a comic, you're kind of activating your mind and your sense of empathy.” Jason Shiga #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 86: My two-year-old son on whimsical wonderings and wandering Waldos

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Do you ever feel book guilt?

Do you ever feel book shame?

Do you ever feel bad when you quit a book?

Do you ever feel like the books you read aren’t ‘hard’ enough?

These are common feelings that I know I’ve had. I say we need to get rid of all the book shame and book guilt we learn as we grow up because there really is no right or wrong way to read. We need to escape the book exhaustion that can come with endless Shakespeare, mandatory classics, and piles of textbooks.

We need to tell kids that they can read whatever they want to read.

Picture books! Comic books! Young Adult!

Whatever.

Just follow your joy and keep the books coming.

I partly started 3 Books as a way to keep stoking the flames for that pure love of reading books.

For most of my adult life, I lost my love of reading. Loved books as a child! And yet somehow by my late 20s I had almost completely stopped reading books. What was it? I’m not sure if it was too many dry textbooks, the endless addiction of social media feed, or the false belief I just didn’t have time to read anymore.

How many times have you heard that?

Chapter 86 of 3 Books is a little different. It’s a mental intermezzo between deep dives.

It’s a way to hopefully remind us of the pure joy that comes from reading books. Of spreading books out on the carpet and playing with them and doing somersaults over them. This chapter is about tapping back into that childhood love of reading.

We are going to hang out on my bedroom floor with my two year old son …

Join me as we flip the page into Chapter 86 …

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:

  • Why are chapter books scary?

  • What can books with flaps teach us about our cities?

  • Why do so many people go to the bathroom in train stations?

  • How does Waldo get around so much?

  • How can sharks jump onto boats?

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Chapter 85: Jane McGonigal on slaying stress with superhero strengths

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Happy Sturgeon Moon, everybody! And happy Blue Moon, too! Jane McGonigal joins us on Chapter 85 of 3 Books to help us celebrate.

Let’s start off with a question.

What would you do if you jumped out of a desk chair and slammed your head directly into an open cupboard door which gave you a massive concussion that left you bedridden for months? Oh, and you were told “No reading, no writing, no video games, no work, no email, no running, no alcohol, and no caffeine.”

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Well, most of us would probably just lie there.

I mean, what else could you do?

Well, if you’re Jane McGonigal that’s not what you do. No! If you’re Jane McGonigal, what you do is design a game, in your concussion-riddled state, to help you get better. You create an avatar. You give yourself goals. You select projects. And you slowly help yourself heal! You call the game Jane the Concussion Slayer, after your favorite TV show Buffy The Vampire Slayer, and then you release it out into the world.

Today that game has helped over a million people tackle challenges like concussions, depression, anxiety, and chronic pain. It’s been renamed Super Better and been evaluated by clinical trials, randomized control studies, and all kinds of scientific white papers as the top game in the world treating depression, anxiety and pain.

Is it any wonder Jane was the first person to study computer and video games in her PhD at Berkeley? Or that she’s a TED superstar with two talks racking up over 15 million views about how gaming can make a better world and the game that can give you 10 extra years of life? Or that she’s the New York Times bestselling author of Reality is Broken and (yes) Superbetter? Or the Director of Games Research & Development at the Institute for the Future? No, I did not make any of that up. And I could go on!

Jane McGonigal is a humanistic designer of alternate realities and her life goal is to see a game developer win the Nobel Peace Prize. I love her work and the incredible force for good it is having on the world.

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Let’s grab a seat with Jane and talk: how we live with greater flow, how we harness our children’s ‘soul force’, why we maybe shouldn’t be limiting screen time, how to choose games for kids, what questions you should ask your kids about the games they play, the best card game out there, exploring the boundaries of our psychic selves, and, of course, Jane McGonigal’s 3 most formative books.

Let’s turn the page into Chapter 85 now …

What You'll Learn:

  • How can we bend the rules of reality?

  • What is the power of a twin relationship?

  • What is a soul force?

  • How should we think about nature and nurture as we parent?

  • Are our identities more malleable today?

  • What is the difference between social media and gaming?

  • What is flow?

  • Why do game designers learn about flow?

  • How can flow be a resource for humanity?

  • How do we find our own flow?

  • How can we shift away from bullshit jobs?

  • Why should we shorten the workday week?

  • How can games help treat PTSD and depression?

  • How can we better manage screen time for our kids?

  • How should we curate games for our kids?

  • How can games help our kids learn confidence?

  • Why should kids teach their parents how to play video games?

  • What are the  key questions you should be asking your kids about the video games they play?

  • What is a predictor of video game addiction?

  • How does TV benefit kids?

  • Why should you watch TV with your kids?

  • Why should you know the theme songs of your kids’ favorite TV shows?

  • How do we teach aliens what it means to be human?

  • What does studying an audience tell us about art?

  • How do we experience more out of life?

Notable quotes from Jane mcgonigal:

“What I try to do with my kids is I try to see them and reflect back to them what I see.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“Parenting can help you be a better person because you don’t want to pass on your learned anxieties” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“The soul force is also the love force. It is the sheer power of love that you feel as a parent to make every change you wish you could have made.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“Online gamers are essentially like psychonauts. The same type of experimentation we saw around psychedelic drugs in the sixties, we are seeing with online gamers kind of exploring the boundaries of their psychic selves through the avatars.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“Technology is allowing us to explore our psychic selves and who we want to be and the power of our minds.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“Social media and gaming are so different. One brings out the best in us. One brings out the worst in us.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“The performance of your real self on social media is, in many ways, toxic and disfiguring of your authentic self vs when you play a game, you might be playing an alternate persona, it's an avatar, a character, but you are being an authentic self.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“When I research who people are when they play their favorite games, it's not an escape or a reconfiguration of their authentic selves. It's really nurturing and allowing to flourish things that are really signature strengths.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“Self-help is so important, but it's not enough. We have to heal society and heal each other, not just ourselves.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“We need universal basic income so that people can spend more time doing the things that bring them flow that are not bringing them a paycheck.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“There's abundance in things you aren't paid to do.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“The things that bring us true well being and psychological flourishing, that allow us to connect with others and help them flourish too, are these activities that are not expensive, we don't get paid for, but we get nourished by them.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“Family screen time to me is not something I need to restrict, if we're doing something that's challenging and learning and creating and collaborating.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“If you can talk about what it takes to be good at the game in language that then bridges back or springboards back to reality, then you're more likely to see those skills as part of who you are and use them when you face a real challenge or stress.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“Kids are naturally better at video games than we are, and this is a rare role reversal where they get to be the teacher to the parent. It's so good for your relationship.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“Games are skills and training and strengths that are part of who we are and we can bring that to our whole lives.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

“If you can't sing the theme song, then you're not involved enough.” Jane McGonigal #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 84: Lori Gottlieb on therapists thoughtfully thrashing thinking theories

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Do you have a therapist?

Do you meet up with someone on a regular basis to open up, talk about yourself, and get into the weeds of your emotions? Maybe the ones you can articulate, the ones you can’t articulate, the ones you’re angry about having, the ones you’re confused about having.

I started seeing a therapist about 10 years ago.

After the loss of my marriage and my best friend, it was suggested by my parents that I would benefit from seeing a therapist.

I’m embarrassed to admit I said no. “I don’t need a therapist! I don’t have problems! That’s for people with problems! That’s not me!”

Maybe it was the years, decades, generations of stigma and taboos around that word? Therapy. Growing up I never heard about anyone going to therapy except in the context of some desperate, last second attempt to salvage something like a failing marriage at the eleventh hour.

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Maybe that’s why I’m talking about it today! I’m very lucky to have a therapist. And proud of it too, I’d say. My wife Leslie is, too. We talk openly about going to therapy with our children. So often, so easily, so quickly, people say, ‘I’ve got to go to workout, I’ve got to go to the gym, I’ve got to run on the treadmill.’ We’re so open about sharing physical self care. But we aren’t nearly as open about mental self care. And that conversation only progresses globally if we keep having conversations like the one we’re about to have today…

So welcome, welcome, welcome. Great to have you here. Thank you for reading all the way down here! Are you new? Are you a 3 Books virgin? If so, you picked a wonderful chapter to begin with. Chapter 84 with Lori Gottlieb. If you like it, we’d love to have you join our community. 3 Books is by and for book lovers, writers, makers, sellers and librarians. The show is a 100% a labor of love and a piece of art with no ads, no sponsors, no promotions, and no interruptions. We’ve got deep values like no book guilt, no book shame, the right to sip, the right to dip. We’re not about reading as a chore, or as a job, or as homework. We’re all about discovering or rediscovering the pure joy of books or deepening the love you already have.

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Today I am very excited to share with you a conversation with the one and only Lori Gottlieb.

Do you know Lori Gottlieb?

She’s a psychotherapist and author of the New York Times bestseller, Maybe You Should Talk To Someone which has sold well over a million copies. It’s even being adapted as a television series. She writes the extremely popular weekly column Dear Therapist in The Atlantic. She contributes regularly to The New York Times, has a very popular TED Talk, shared one of the best stories at The Moth ever, and is a member of the Advisory Council for Bring Change To Mind. Finally, she also hosts her own wonderful podcast called Dear Therapists.

As a therapist who writes about therapy, Lori kicks open the door to conversations we need to have.

We are going to talk about finding a therapist, making adult friends, what you should ask instead of ‘how are you?’, how heterosexual women often react to men crying, processing grief, the key ingredient to vulnerability, tennis partners, defining emotions, the voices in our head, the root cause of trauma, why insight is the booby prize of therapy, and, of course, about the wonderful Lori Gottlieb’s three most formative books.

Let’s turn the page into Chapter 84 now …

What You'll Learn:

  • What is the difference between content and process in therapy?

  • How do people move through their struggles?

  • What makes us human at our core?

  • How can we find ourselves in the stories of others?

  • How much should we share about ourselves on social media?

  • What is the importance of authenticity for a writer?

  • How do therapists use their own humanity to help others?

  • How should we navigate vulnerability in writing?

  • How can authors write about their own children without betraying their stories which are their own to tell?

  • What is true vulnerability?

  • What are the misconceptions surrounding therapy?

  • How do you test drive your therapist?

  • How do we discover our dark side and how can it help us grow as a human being?

  • What is the beauty of mentor mentee relationships?

  • Why are adult friendships hard to come by, specifically for men?

  • Why is it harder for men to be vulnerable?

  • Why do we apologize when we cry?

  • What is the danger of labeling feelings?

  • How can we use our feelings without judgement to make better decisions?

  • What is the danger of numbing our feelings?

  • Why should we not talk our kids out of their feelings?

  • How should we deal with loss and why are the commonly listed stages of grief not necessarily helpful?

  • How do we grieve better?

Notable quotes from Lori gottlieb:

"The internet is the most effective short term painkiller out there." Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“I think the word happiness is misleading because I think happiness is a byproduct of living your life in a way that is meaningful or fulfilling which is what we all want for ourselves. Happiness as a goal is a recipe for disaster.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“I get to see people as they really are and not people with a mask on, or people in the performative aspects of their lives which I think most people have to some degree professionally, at least or sometimes socially.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“I think that my most significant credential is that I am a card carrying member of the human race.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“I use my humanity to help people in the therapy room.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“Vulnerability is really showing up in a way where you are revealing the truth of who you are to somebody in real life, face to face, eye to eye, where the stakes are high.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“I think social media does have a positive function which is it normalizes struggles.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“I really want to encourage people to use vulnerability in a way to connect with other people in their real lives.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“The relationship you have with your therapist serves as a microcosm for all of the stuff that is going on out there and it helps you to learn something about your patterns, your blind spots and about what’s keeping you stuck.”  Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“Insight is the booby prize of therapy.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“When men become fully human, or share their full humanity, people sometimes become very uncomfortable with that.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“Feelings are just feelings, they’re like a compass and tell you what you need.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“If you don’t pay attention to your feelings, if you feel like some feelings are bad and I don’t want to feel them, it’s like walking around with a glitchy GPS, you have no idea what direction to go in because you are not using your feelings in the positive way they are meant to be used which is to tell you where to go.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“Because we judge ourselves we tend to numb out our feelings” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“Numbness isn’t the absence of feelings, numbness is a state of being overwhelmed by too many feelings.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“The person we talk to the most in the course of our lives is our self.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“I want to make sure that when I talk to myself I am playing the radio station that is kind and true and helpful and not the radio station that is the bully radio station.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“Self compassion actually keeps you more accountable. It actually helps you to make greater change and to grow in a deeper way and longer lasting way.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“Grief is grief and loss is loss.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

“Trauma comes from unprocessed loss and grief.” Lori Gottlieb #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 83: Douglas Rushkoff on divisive duality and designer deaths

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“Our technologies, markets and cultural institutions, once forces for human connection and expression, now isolate and repress us. It is time to remake society together, not as individual players, but as the team we actually are: Team Human.”

That little paragraph is printed right on the cover of the latest book by Douglas Rushkoff.

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Do you know Douglas Rushkoff?

He’s a vivid, big-thinking author behind books like Throwing Rocks at the Google Bus, Present Shock, Program or Be Programmed, Screenagers, Playing the Future, Media Virus, and many others.

Seth Godin calls him acerbic. I’ll call him provocative. Douglas is not afraid of anything! His writing is confident and he’s got the research and logic ready behind every point.

No wonder he’s been named one of the world’s most influential thought leaders. Douglas hosts the popular Team Human podcast, writes for The Guardian, and is the documentarian behind Generation Like and Merchants of Cool. He’s also responsible for coining many popular phrases including “viral media” and “social currency.”

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Douglas Rushkoff is a big thinker! A different thinker. And we love getting different thinkers on this show.

From Chapter 4 with Sarah Ramsey, my favorite bookseller, to Chapter 36 with Elder Cox and Elder Corona, two teenage Mormon missionaries, to Chapter 61 with Temple Grandin, one of the world’s first autism activists, we’re having a blast bouncing around brain spaces.

We are going to talk about Bitcoin, reality tunnels, what the internet really is, the benefits of slack, rebuilding societal trust, the source code for magic, Timothy Leary and designer deaths, facts versus reality, mycelium and trees, Bardo orgies, the purpose of play, and, of course, the incredible Douglas Rushkoff’s three (or maybe four!) most formative books.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 83 now …

What You'll Learn:

  • What is a media theorist?

  • How is Team Human doing?

  • What is the true environmental cost of Bitcoin?

  • Why is slack so important?

  • How can we rebuild trust where it is lost?

  • How do we free ourselves from societal pressures?

  • Is there such a thing as an original thought?

  • How does intergenerational living benefit society?

  • Why should we never retire?

  • What is Chapel Perilous?

  • What is a reality tunnel?

  • How do you surf reality?

  • How does tradition keep us sane?

  • How should we think about death?

  • What is the difference between death and dying?

  • What is the Tibetan bardo? 

  • What kind of games should we strive to play in life?

  • What is the purpose of play?

  • What was the original vision for the internet?

  • What is the true meaning of the Sabbath in today’s world?

  • Why is Torah magical?

Notable quotes from douglas rushkoff:

“Declaring oneself human first is a gauntlet to so many different communities.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“Being human is a team sport.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“Bitcoin itself has turned into a speculative pyramid scheme. It’s a technology that seems hell bent on burning the planet.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“Bitcoin uses 5% of the planet’s energy right now. More than many nations.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“If we want to develop, we’re going to have to learn to forgive people of today for not being developed tomorrow.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“We’re going to have to grant each other slack otherwise every step of progress is an excuse to out and cancel somebody who hadn’t made that step yesterday.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“Once you have difference, you have preference.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“We are learning to only trust facts. And what we are not able to do is trust one another.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“The mechanisms for building trust are very biological and social in nature.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“The less organically we are connected, the less trust we can have for one another.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“We are all living in our own reality tunnels. Yes there is an external reality but we also interpret that reality through the way we see things.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“To be alive is to be able to sustain paradox over time.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“There is nothing more intimate than bearing witness to death.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“Dying and death are two different things.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“The whole purpose of play is not to win which ends the play. The purpose of play is partnership and collaboration to keep the play going.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“They turned the internet into an advanced form of television. Surveillance and manipulation for advertisers.” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

“Take one day a week, outside capitalism, outside surveillance media and experience just yourself in this world” Douglas Rushkoff #3bookspodcast

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Chapter 82: Quentin Tarantino on preferring penny paperbacks and perfecting the process

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What was your first Tarantino experience?

I was thirteen years old in an unfinished basement watching Reservoir Dogs on VHS and can still remember how shook my friends and I were when we saw it.

Was that your first Tarantino experience? Or was it Pulp Fiction? Jackie Brown? Kill Bill? Inglourious Basterds? Django Unchained? The Hateful Eight? Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?

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Well, the Tarantino Experience continues with his brand new book Once Upon A Time In Hollywood which is the propulsive, addictive, roller-coastering movie novelization of his award-winning film. I absolutely loved it.

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Today we’re going to talk about: Quentin Tarantino’s favorite writer, how we thicken our skin in a thin-skinned world, how we can live confidently in a clickbait world, how one goes about writing a movie novelization, what an unlikely spinoff to Inglourious Basterds might look like, why we should avoid self censorship, what are Quentin’s thoughts on meme Quentin Quarantino, his three most formative books, and much, much, more …

I’m going to be in your left ear (from a furnace room at my family’s lake house rental!), Quentin’s going to be in your right ear (from his writing studio in Hollywood Hills!) and you will be sitting right between us.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 82 now …

What You'll Learn:

  • What’s the difference between releasing a movie and releasing a book?

  • What should we make of today’s ad-driven culture?

  • How do we build thick skin today?

  • Why is failure so important in the creation of art?

  • What do critics offer artists?

  • How do you decide what to do when you can do anything you want?

  • Why is the artistic path such a guide post?

  • Who was the first rock and roll idol?

  • What is the balance between progressivism and artistic freedom?

  • What principles should be followed when turning a movie into a book?

  • What are the artistic and relationship implications of having confidence?

  • Why is self-censorship limiting?

Notable quotes from Quentin Tarantino:

"Half the reason to get on an airplane is to take three books with you." Quentin Tarantino #3bookspodcast

“If you really put yourself out there, you can come up with great rewards. Or you can fall on your face, but that's when you're trying something.” Quentin Tarantino #3bookspodcast

“Without criticism it is all just advertising. It is all just flashy public relations.” Quentin Tarantino #3bookspodcast

“I've always believed that if you're writing a dialogue for characters and everything you know, you've got to tell the truth. And if people don't like it, or it's ugly, well sometimes you're not supposed to like it. Sometimes it's supposed to be ugly.” Quentin Tarantino #3bookspodcast

“I'm a human being like anybody else and my ego can get in the way, but that's usually when I'm making a bad decision and that's when I’m not being pure.” Quentin Tarantino #3bookspodcast

“Anybody who tattoos my characters, or a scene from my movie on their person for all time, they have a license other people don't have.” Quentin Tarantino #3bookspodcast

“When it comes to the printed page, just do not censor yourself. If you've got a story to tell, tell that story. Don't bend it to society. Don't bend it to the public.” Quentin Tarantino #3bookspodcast

“You can write a book about a perfect son of a bitch as long as the son of a bitch is interesting.” Quentin Tarantino #3bookspodcast

Connect with quentin:

  • (Watch his movies! He’s not on social media)

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